danieldwilliam: (electoral reform)
danieldwilliam ([personal profile] danieldwilliam) wrote2012-02-08 05:07 pm
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Democracy Users in the Pub

I was as the first regular monthly meeting this year of the Edinburgh reform group last night.

It was good to see folk again. I’ve not been able to make the last few meetings.

I think we’ve come up with a plan for how to organise the group so that it’s forward facing and enjoyable and social and provides a support structure for people who want to be more or less active in the Reform movement.

As usual lots of interesting chat.  I got to try out what I think if going to be my favourite question of the referendum.

What are the issues that you will most important when making your decision about how to vote? What aspect of society would independence or the retention of the Union have to have a really positive affect on to sway your vote?

A couple of the answers really got me thinking.

First up – not a lot, independence won’t make much of a difference.

What if that’s true and we spend a lot of effort thinking about how different systems of government and conclude that fundamentally this question doesn’t make much difference.  That’s a bit of a worry for politicians on both sides of the question.

Secondly – what to do with the Scottish diaspora?  Which system of government would be most welcoming of the many people who consider themselves to have some Scottish connection.

Not before the referendum as a discussion on the franchise but afterwards. How do we encourage people to return? Do we want them to return? Do they have a right to return?

Feeling quite buoyed up by it all.

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[identity profile] f4f3.livejournal.com 2012-02-09 01:22 pm (UTC)(link)
For question one, it would be about the priorities of a Scottish Government. I'll vote for independence if I think that will mean more money invested in education, health, and care for the vulnerable. You'll note that none of these specify a particular party to be in power, just a change of emphasise.

For the second, of course Scots have a right to return, if they're living in England or the EU, were born here, or brought up here (basically if we could put you in the Scotland team then in you come). And if there isn't a right for those of more distant Scottish descent, then at least there should be an oportunity for them to move here. Scotland is comparitively empty - we need immigrants. Personally, I'd be happiest if they moved to the Highlands and Argyll, where we really are short of workers (and, yes, short of jobs) but the population of Glasgow has fallen by a fair bit over the last 60 years - I'm sure we could fit in a few hundred thousand. And Edinburgh is pretty much dead except for the Festival, isn't it?
How to encourage them back? Let them know that they're welcome. I'm also all for relaxing visa conditions for students staying on in Scotland afer their degrees (and for disqualifying Bus Station U/Glasgow Tech/Caledonian University from having ANY overseas students - kidding, honestly.

[identity profile] f4f3.livejournal.com 2012-02-09 02:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Here's some nice stuff from Glasgow City Council:

http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/AboutGlasgow/Factsheets/Glasgow/Population.htm

The table at the bottom shows Glasgow's population going from 1.1 million in 1951 to 584k in 2008. Looks like it's picked up at about 3% a year since then.

[identity profile] f4f3.livejournal.com 2012-02-09 02:26 pm (UTC)(link)
0.3% - typo!
andrewducker: (Default)

[personal profile] andrewducker 2012-02-09 02:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Good Lord, that _is_ a massive drop. Thanks for that!

[identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com 2012-02-09 02:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Looking at that link I think there's been a drift from Dundee to Not Dundee over the last ten years.

My belief is that over the longer term people have moved from the Highlands and Island to the cities. Certainly I get the impression that lots of places in the H&I would welcome a few hundred enterprising types arriving.

According to the Oracle of Wiki Glasgow had a population of 1.1 million in the 1950's and now has a population 600k.

I think quite a lot of the dense slum housing was knocked down during the 1960's but I guess if you have a city that used to twice the people in it there might be room for a few hundred thousand Returning Scots.

[identity profile] f4f3.livejournal.com 2012-02-09 02:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Me point exactly - though you might have to rebuild the slums of the Gorbals, Springburn and Townhead to fit them in...

[identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com 2012-02-09 02:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Perhaps not new build slums.

One might find it easier to slightly increase the density of the central belt.

[identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com 2012-02-09 02:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I think your answer to Q1 has something in common with an indepedent Scotland would vote for a government that is in accord with the social democratic tendency of the Scots.

It would cost less than £50m to write to each Ancestral Scot and invite them to apply for citizenship.

Australia, from time to time, has put location restrictions on immigration. If we were swamped with applicants we could always restrict their visas to Shetland and Lewis and Harris.

Frankly, even during the Festival not much happens here. Place is a deadend, I don't know why anyone bothers coming.
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